Rule Tweaking

This thread should be used for discussions about tweaking rules. This is to keep such conversations out of the game threads so the pace is not broken. I hope to have a post about rules we should always keep in the back of our minds when playing (flanking bonuses and such) up soon.

Okay, so we are doing house rules D&D, so I wanted to start with two of our character classes.

Rangers: They still get d10 hit points regardless of what the 3.5 Player's Handbook says.

Monks: The monks ki strike changed in 3.5, but we are still using the old rules. The adjustments are below:
4th Level: Ki strike (magic), changes back to Ki strike +1
10th Level: Ki strike (lawful), changes back to Ki strike +2
16th Level: Ki strike (adamantine), changes back to Ki strike +3. Also, the monk gains the ability adamantine fist which allows them to ignore hardness with their unarmed strikes on inanimate objects.

Here are some of the rules we use a lot in the game. I am putting them here so they be glanced during any forum session.

Survival checks for foraging now require an entire day of foraging. The game result is that the overland movment rate for a party drops by half. The DC, however, has dropped to DC 10 for the character to be able to subsist for a day. For every 2 points above 10 the character can find provisions for one other character.

Flanking: +2 bonus to attack rolls for each character flanking

Sneak attacks can be done against an opponent that is either flat-footed or flanked.

Charge attacks give a +2 circumstance bonus to attack and a -2 penalty to AC. Also, a charge is a special partial action that allows a character to make a double move and still get one attack. Charges must be in straight lines. The character also needs at least a 10 foot space to run to get the benefit of a charge.

+1 circumstance bonus to attack rolls while mounted. Does not stack with a charge.

+1 circumstance bonus to attack rolls while fighting from higher elevation (especially archers). Does not stack with a charge.

IMPORTANT: Any item used in a round must be drawn as a move equivalent action. Wands must be drawn; scrolls, rods, and potions are included in this. A character using two weapons will have a difficult time drinking a potion while both weapons are drawn. This includes shields except bucklers.

It is a move-equivalent action to draw or sheathe a weapon or shield. Quickdraw allows a weapon(s) to be drawn (but not sheathed) as a free action.

Shield bashes do not allow the shield to be used as a defensive item during the round a character makes an attack with it, lowering the attacker's armor class. The defensive enhancement bonus on a shield is not added to the attack or damage roll of a shield bash. Shields, however, can be enchanted to also have a weapon bonus to attack and damage.

Characters are flat-footed against any opponent that beats them in initiative order.

Trips are used with a Str check from the attacker opposed by either a Str check or a Dex check (whichever is higher) by the defender.

Trips, Grapples, Sundering a weapon, disarming a weapon, and unarmed attacks all are subject to an attack of opportunity unless the character has the appropiate feat or monster ability.

Favored enemy bonuses apply to damage, and Spot, Listen, Bluff, Sense Motive, and Survival checks, NOT to attacks.

Bonuses of the same type do not stack with each other, they overlap.
Example: if you have gauntlets of ogre power (+2 enhancement bonus to Strength) and someone casts Bull's Strenght on you (+4 enhancement bonus to Str) you get a overall enhancement increase of 4 not 6.
Example: Multiple blesses do not stack since they are morale bonuses. A Bless spell (+1 morale bonus) is overlapped by a Heroism spell (+2 morale bonus); however, Prayer stacks with both of them (+1 insight bonus)
EXCEPTION: Dodge bonuses do stack with each other. They are the only ones that do.

Unfortunately, penalties of the same type do stack

To ready an action is a move-equivalent action whether the character moves or not. The character is then allowed a standard action when the conditions to act are met. The character stays on that new initiative until the end of the encounter or if the character refocuses.

I think this covers all of the big questions we usually have. Let me know if there are more to add. Or reply to this post (use the same subject line) with other rules to use as an easy reference.

Back to the Survival skill:

There is a rule about avoiding getting lost in the wilderness. I want to change it to a check that is made to stay on track in the wilderness, more like an internal compass. The DC will remain the same (DC 15) but a failure does not mean you are lost, it means you are off track by a few degrees, which you can correct in an hour of traveling. This roll will be needed every hour; however, if a member of the party has a Survival check of at least +14 that character does not need to make this check every hour (it is an automatic success).

Also, Knowledge (geography) still gives the roll a +2 synergy bonus.

If the area is very familiar to a character (homeland or frequented area) there is another +4 circumstance bonus to the roll.

A current map of the area gives a +2 equipment bonus as well. An out of date map could give penalties.

Foreign areas may give a -2 or more to the roll (DM's perogative). Another planet or plane could give a penalty possibly up to -10; especially, if it is a really weird planet (i.e. flat).

Since the last time we all chatted, I need to clarify what Charisma actually means. It is used often as a dump stat since in most circumstances it has little consequence on game mechanics. Except for a few classes and skills this is mostly true (except for bards, sorcerers, and wilders specifically). However, the Charisma skill has a massive roleplaying effect that has never really been discussed at length. Great roleplaying opportunities are lost by using this stat as a dump stat. Especially, since if someone really wants to play a character with a low charisma, they are underplaying an intense weakness.

Charisma is more than how a character looks or their social skills (i.e. being blunt or lacking sophistication). Such descriptions may work with a character with an average score or perhaps an 8 or 9. However, below those scores we are talking about serious limitations. Charisma goes beyond their personality or even leadership. A low Charisma equates to bad leadership qualities. Why is this? What traits does a character with a low Charisma score lack? Here are a few traits such a character would be lacking; confidence, ability to think on their own, self-esteem, and emotional independence. These characters have a hard time in social situations for more reasons than because they are blunt. They may need to be constantly shown that they have worth; they are not in touch with the strength of their abilities. Their desire to be great or even average is missing or greatly hindered. A failure could be disastrous to them and a success is a lucky break; it is rarely about their own prowess. Even if they are excellent at something; they take no credit for their abilties. They may have a problem with praise; they don't except it well even if they desire praise. This is not humility; a humble character is very self-confident (they don't need to brag) and make fine and compassionate leaders. Low-Charisma characters are caught in a contradiction that can be mistaken for humility, but it is actual a lack of faith in oneself.

Most of the prestige classes I made for the Planescape factions (which you will all see soon) have abilities that function off of Charisma. This was deliberate. It was not to force you to build up Charisma. The stat has a strong connection with self-confidence, so it has strong connection with belief. A character with a high Charisma has a strong self-identity and strong beliefs. This is another reason why Paladins and Clerics can turn undead. It is a skill they learn sure, but their belief empowers them to overpower the will of undead. After all, what creature has more will and self-assurance then a spirit that refused to pass on after death and stayed to torment the living? Granted they went mad in the transition, but undead are a product of pure will. A portion of a spirit lives on in undead that allows them to alter their bodies form, gain new abilities, and, often overlooked, stop decay of the body without life processes to assist. Hell, intelligent undead even heal their bodies normally like any character who rest for eight hours. That is an act of will. Most undead have high Charisma scores, even a ghoul has a Charisma score of 16, and ghouls are neither good-looking or have strong social skills. They are creatures of pure will and a desire to feed and live their blasphemous existence.

At the very least, characters with low Charisma scores are followers; in a position of leadership they are worthless. Some of them have great difficulty making their own decisions. I know you probably do not want to roleplay characters who are followers. I suppose you do not have to, but characters have weaknesses and strengths; playing those abilities off one another is what makes for good characters and roleplaying. Learning about your weaknesses in a character is just as important as their strengths. Charisma is an often overlooked stat because the bulk of its meaning is difficult to put into a dice rolling context. It is mainly a roleplaying element. 3rd edition did help a little bit by putting into some skils, but its true meaning has still been lost. Realize that this is far from exhaustive, I just wanted to put more ideas out there and get people thinking about future roleplaying situations.

Hey Guys,

Here I have the rules for flight recorded here. This covers the basics of flight; I have not included the feats that animals (or characters) can get to improve their flying abilities. Those feats may find there way to either the website or as a file to be sne to all of you. Of course, I can always be asked about them and I will give out the information as needed.

First here is the Flight Maneuverability information from the DMG.

PERFECT:
Minimum Forward Speed: None
Hover: Yes
Fly Backward: Yes
Reverse: Free
Turn: Any
Turn in Place: Any
Maximum Turn: Any
Up Angle: Any
Up Speed: Full
Down Angle: Any
Down Speed: Double
Between Up and Down: None

GOOD:
Minimum Forward Speed: None
Hover: Yes
Fly Backward: Yes
Reverse: lose 5 ft
Turn: 90°/5ft
Turn in Place: +90°/-5ft
Maximum Turn: Any
Up Angle: Any
Up Speed: Half
Down Angle: Any
Down Speed: Double
Between Up and Down: None

AVERAGE:
Minimum Forward Speed: Half
Hover: No
Fly Backward: No
Reverse: N/A
Turn: 45°/5ft
Turn in Place: +45°/-5ft
Maximum Turn: 90°
Up Angle: 60°
Up Speed: Half
Down Angle: Any
Down Speed: Double
Between Up and Down: 5ft

POOR:
Minimum Forward Speed: Half
Hover: No
Fly Backward: No
Reverse: N/A
Turn: 45°/5ft
Turn in Place: No
Maximum Turn: 45°
Up Angle: 45°
Up Speed: Half
Down Angle: 45°
Down Speed: Double
Between Up and Down: 10ft

CLUMSY:
Minimum Forward Speed: Half
Hover: No
Fly Backward: No
Reverse: N/A
Turn: 45°/10ft
Turn in Place: No
Maximum Turn: 45°
Up Angle: 45°
Up Speed: Half
Down Angle: 45°
Down Speed: Double
Between Up and Down: 20ft

MINIMUM FORWARD SPEED: This is the speed that the creature must maintain to keep from stalling and falling out of the sky. This means that a creature with an AVERAGE fly speed of 60 can make a turn that takes less than 30ft to complete. It must then fly a straight 30ft or stall.

HOVER: The ability to stay in one place while airborne (There is a feat for this as well for less agile flyers).

FLY BACKWARD: The ability to fly backward

REVERSE: A creature with good manueverability uses up 5ft of movement to fly backward. Other less agile flyers cannot do it.

TURN: How much a creature can turn after covering the stated distance.

TURN IN PLACE: A creature with good or average manueverability can spend some of its movement to turn in place
GOOD fliers can turn 90 degrees in place while costing 5ft
AVERAGE fliers can turn 45 degrees in place while costing 5ft

MAXIMUM TURN: How much the creature can turn in one place
AVERAGE fliers can turn up to 90 degrees in one spot and it costs then 10ft (reference TURN IN PLACE). They must also be able to sustain their minimum forward speed after all their turning is completed.
POOR or CLUMSY fliers are restricted to their 45 degree turn.

UP ANGLE: The maximum angle at which a creature can climb

UP SPEED: How fast the creature can climb

DOWN ANGLE: The angle at which a creature can descend

DOWN SPEED: How fast the creature can dive

BETWEEN UP AND DOWN: An AVERAGE POOR or CLUMSY flier must fly level for a minimum distance after descending and before climbing. Any flier can begin descending after a climb without an intervening distance.

Take all this into account when flying. Send me a message if you have any questions

My original forum rules gave players a week of leeway before making a post. I did this to be conservative for my own schedule at the lab and grad school. My schedule does not appear to be the problem I thought it would. Also, making posts has been relatively easy to fit into my hectic schedule.

Also, the game is hardly where I wanted it to be by now, and I need the flexiblity to continue to move story elements along. I have been trying to post every 24 hours after 9pm. I am going to continue that schedule, starting tonight.

I am not trying to stifle character interactions with each other. Most interaction can be done over time (like days in game time). I understand that some interactions should be concluded the moment they are started, but I need players to conduct that interaction quicker than it is currently being done.

Therefore, I am altering my rules on posts (this will be retroactive):

If there are no pressing character situations that need resolution I will put up a story post every night at, or after, 9pm (after 10pm on Mondays). It there is a pressing character situation, I will wait two days before I put up a story post. If the interaction is not continued after this time, I will move the story along. I may put up posts during this time just to show the passage of time during the interaction, and to conduct other character interactions. There will be nothing extreme like moving the time ahead an hour or a day.

This new rule will include combat situations!

If the real world is keeping you from making a post during situation featuring your character, please CONTACT me and let me know. The DM does not know what is happening if there is no communication. That way I can let everyone else know what is going on and we can decide how we wish to continue. Also, I would like an estimate of when you will be able to post again. I will hold you to it, unless I get more communication telling me what is going on. Be aware that I eventually may just move the story along, leaving the character situation to be resolved at a later time.

Anya and Evilbob, I added you to this PM so you can get updates in changes in the forum rules. I do hope to put the rules up on the RPGC very soon. This post is also going on the Rule Tweaking thread.

That said, it is official that I will be going out to sea. The Against the Giant threads will be locked starting at 10pm on Jan 30th. The will reopen when I return (late February). Anya and Evilbob, I want your characters uploaded before Jan 30th. I want to bring them in, before I head out to sea.

Take care, comrades! See you tonight, perhaps.

In my perusing of the rules, I discovered a number of feats I wish to alter. I just want to change the rules a bit.

Power Lunge (Sword and Fist): This feat does not invoke an attack of opportunity from the target.

Spring Attack: This feat can be used if a character is wearing heavy armor

I had thoughts just when I had Fennigan cast Polymorph yesterday. I remembered how the spell was used in games before (Slavers Epic) and I wanted to clarify some things that are not in the PHB. I thought the things I allowed to happen before made the spell too powerful and easily abused.

1. Each casting only allows a character to change to one new form.

2. Changing back to your original form ends the spell.

3. You must be familiar with the new form for the spell to work. For forms your character has not seen during his/her adventuring career may require an appropiate Knowledge roll. The different types of creatures that can be identified with different Knowledge skills are in the PHB, use that as a base. For example: Animals and Magical Beasts require Knowledge (nature), Celestials and Fiends require Knowledge (the planes). The DC to be able to change into the new form is the same as being able to identify the creature (DC = 10 + 1/2 creature's hit points). You probably won't know the DC when you make the roll.

4. A wizard's knowledge of the creature is transfered to someone else, if the other person is the subject of the spell. Therefore there is no confusion for the character on what he/she can do in the new form.

All right I had a new thought. I was reading the combat section of the PHB and it had a little blurb about talking in combat. I did not originally want to limit communication in combat, but I was thinking I should at least give it a shot. So I have some rules about what characters can say in one combat round:

1) No character can speak more than 25 words in one combat round. This the same about of words in a casting of sending, so it felt like a good limit.

2) This speech is not considered an action, free or otherwise, so it does not interfere with any other actions in a round, except a bardic song or casting a spell with a casting time greater than a standard action.

3) Should someone need to speak more than 25 words, a character will need to take a move-equivalent action to speak the rest of the words.

4) Speaking and telepathy can be done in unison. In other words, you can send a telepathic/empathic message to someone and speak to another character in the same round. Both of these actions cannot be more than 25 words long or rule #3 applies.

5) Also, I would prefer that people only speak on their actions. I tried it with a little more free form before, but I didn't really like it.

I put the rules for dispel magic from my last post here for easy reference.

I will allow someone to target a specific spell with a Dispel Magic whether it is the area or personal version a character is using. That spell will be considered first when attempting to dispel. However, there could be more spells operating on that person, object, or area. If the character is unaware of other spells obviously you cannot roll dispel checks for the spells you are unaware of. However, I can, so I will continue the rolls for each spell a character is unaware of. This way we do not have to go back and forth with needless posts and bog down the game. I will do so for other characters at later dates. However, this could have mixed results if a PC has a spell running. For future reference, if you know all the magical auras in an area, you can make a dispel attempt for each spell in the area, without my assistance. Just remember an area dispel will only dispel one spell/opponent or object in the area of effect. Any area spells can be dispelled without limit as long as they are not emanating from an opponent. And no, you cannot pick and choose which spells to dispel and which ones will not be affected; all spells in an area of effect can be affected.

In my wanderings I decided it was time to tweak the rules on leadership. I am ditching the idea of cohorts. In my games, if you want a new character, make one. I'm allowing a maximum of three characters per player, so cohorts are redundant.

However, followers are where the Leadership score comes into play. Now, the normal rules allow for followers to be either commoners, experts, and warriors that are determined to travel or work for the PC in any way they can. These are loyal individuals who wish to follow the PC for any reason. These are different than assigned troops for a commanding officer or people you hire for a specific job.

You will still need a Leadership score of 10 before you can start attracting followers, but you will only attract troops if you, as a player, want them. The DM should be informed of your desire to have followers.

The difference in the rules that I am making is that the types of followers have been expanded. Instead of just commoners, experts, and warriors, a PC will be able to enlist followers that could be low-level wizards, aristocrats, animals, and even monsters. I know some of you do not have access to the DMG and its Leadership table, but the DM can inform a player of the type of followers he can enlist when the Player is ready to attract followers.

The rules I want to play with is that the followers will be determined by Challenge Rating (CR) or HD, whichever is higher. For instance, a character with a Leadership of 10 can attract 5 1st Level warriors using the rules in the DMG, so he can attract followers with a CR 1/2. This could include any other creature that has CR of 1/2 or lower and equal to or less than 1HD. An example of this would be a dire rat (CR: 1/3, HD: 1). This tweak could have a druid or a ranger with more animal followers rather than warriors.

A creature with a higher CR but less HD runs on its CR for the possibility of getting the creature as a follower. For example, a pixie has only 1HD, but has a CR 4, so you would need to be at a point where you can attract CR 4 creatures. You could not have a pixie at the above Leadership score of 10. Both conditions of the Leadership score must be met (HD and CR).

Another example is a character with a Leadership score of 13. This character can now attract 1 2nd Level warrior. This character is now able to attract followers with a CR of 1 or creatures with 2HD whose CR is equal to or less than one. This is when a PC could begin to attract NPCs with adventuring classes (1st Level fighters, clerics, wizards, and such). You could also attract monsters like gnolls (an example only) since they have 2HD but only a CR 1. Of course this also means you can attract 2nd warriors, commoners, and experts if your needs demand it. I just want to increase the versatility of the Leadership ability for characters.

One more thing:
Your followers can gain experience, even a dire rat. Followers are treated as a unit when it comes to experience. All followers with the PC at the time experience is given gets a set amount that is divided evenly amongst every follower. If a group of five followers has 300 XP handed to it, each follower receives 60 Xp. Followers not present do not get experience points.

Should a follower level up and the PC's leadership score does not support the higher level follower, the PC loses that follower. This does not mean that the follower abandons the PC forever, it means that the follower has learned all he can and moves out on his own. The follower it still a friend and contact with the PC, and can be called on to aid the PC at a later date (although played by the DM). Should the PC rise in level so the PC can have a follower at that higher level, the PC may be able to call on that former follower to travel with him again.

Followers are gained, usually with Diplomacy checks over a stretch of a few days. Leadership bonuses or penalties are used on this Diplomacy check. A PC would be looking to turn the NPCs attitude to friendly and keep it there for 3 consecutive days. Of course, followers should be paid and given ample gear to deal with threats the PCs will face. Of course, Players can also allow their DMs to give them followers, individuals who have seeked the PC out, to fill the PC's ranks as well. In this case, no Diplomacy check is necessary. Rare followers (like creatures) would be quiet rare in this case. Rare followers should be pursued by the PC, especially when it comes to animals in which Wild Empathy is needed instead of Diplomacy.

I hope this makes sense. Any Player who wants to try it out let me know, and we can discuss it on the discussion thread as their Leadership score increases.

Leadership is necessary to get any of these benefits.

Alright, here is a funny thing. I ran across the psionic ability Correspond, which functions the same way as Sending. The only difference is that the psionic version has a duration of 1 round/level.

With that in mind I am changing Sending so that it now lasts 1 round/level. This would allow two characters to communicate back and forth once each round with only one casting of the spell or psionic power. However, if a PC or NPC does not respond directly in one round, the duration still passes as usual. No one is under any obligation to respond to these communication spells.

Also, Correspond does not have a chance to fail if you are contacting someone on another plane. Naturally, that means Sending also does not have that restriction. However, PCs be warned: planes that do not touch will not allow Correspond or Sending to be delievered across the void. For example, the Abyss in no way connects with the Elemental Plane of Ice (except with portals) so a casting of Sending will fail. A character with Knowledge (the Planes) will know the restrictions with a successful skill check. This rule is not in any 3rd or 3.5 edition book. This is old school Planescape restrictions.

Val brought this to my intention. The Players Handbook (3.5ed) states that a character with a base attack bonus of +1 or higher can draw a weapon as a free action as part of a move. They can do this without the need of the Quickdraw Feat. I have decided to adopt this, so if you have an attack bonus of +1 or better you can draw weapons as a free action, but not sheathe them. This will count as your free action for the round.

Drawing a shield is alwasys considered a move action.

Quickdraw has some more specific benefits now for different fighting styles, which means you may not want to pick up the feat at all. Pulling out a hidden weapon is a standard action, Quickdraw makes pulling out a concealed weapon a move action. Also, Quickdraw allows a character with a thrown weapon (throwing axes, daggers, javelins, and so on) to thrown as many weapons as he has attacks in one round (as long as the character does not move). So an 11th level fighter could throw three javelins in the same round with quickdraw. God forbid if they were all javelins of lightning!

Also, Quickdraw will still be required for any feat that has it in its prerequisites (i.e. Flick of the Wrist).

So to summarize:
--Any character with a +1 base attack bonus or higher can draw a weapon as a free action.

--Quickdraw allows a concealed weapon to be drawn as a move action instead of a standard action.

--Quickdraw allows you to draw a weapon as a free action without needing to move.

--Quickdraw gives a character the ability to thrown as many weapons as he has attacks in a round, provided he does not move and he has enough throwing weapons.

Hey comrades,

I made a few minor change to the house rules on this thread.

Whirlwind Attack:
I have removed my treatise on Whirlwind Attack and decided to go with the simpler interpretation. So now Whirlwind Attack will apply one attack for all targets within reach. I may change the interpretations of epic Whirlwind to account for the rules I mentioned earlier.

Quickdraw:
Any character can draw a weapon as a free action if they have a base attack bonus of +1 or higher as a free action, without the need of the feat. Rules about concealed weapons and thrown weapons still apply, however. This does not include wands, potions, or any other item other than a weapon.

Leadership:
Leadership feat is now required for any leadership scores, and no longer gives a bonus to Leadership scores.

Charging and Movement (NEW):
We had a moment in Reign of the Towers with a knight making a charge in a diagonal line. There was confusion between Val and I, and I believe I finally found the answers I was looking for. I hope to correct it now. Normally in the rulebook a diagonal movement is considered two spaces and not one (this is mathematically correct), but we never followed that rule to make movement easy and to allow a diagonal five-foot step to get out of a flanked position. When this rule came to the forums I wanted to keep it, so it made it easier for people to still move on the board without telling me the exact path they took (although that's a good idea). I made a mistake in my interpretations of my own rules that I am now correcting (that I am embarrassed to admit so we can just move on). Diagonal charging is acceptable; however, watch your movement, especially if you are on a large mount. Any deviation from a straight line breaks the charge, and if you are using Ride-by Attack you open yourself up to an attack of opportunity.

The last charge that Val's dark knight attempted would have rolled right over Veit, which is an overrun, not a charge. In order to keep moving past Veit and not try an overrun, the knight would have had to move five feet to the left, breaking his charge and opening himself up to an attack of opportunity.

So charge in a diagonal line (it will not hamper your movement), but be careful where your movement will take you. If you have a mount, I would suggest using the square of your mount that is closest to your target and treat it as a 1 square creature to see where it would land on a diagonal charge. This should avoid any deviations in a charge that will break the charge.

Hey Comrades,

So I have a new update for magical items. I've decided that most items that are worn or used (weapons, arms, jewelry, clothing, etc) can have some of their abilities know just by wearing them. This is mostly to prevent heavy note keeping by myself and you guys. Items with multiple abilities may still need to be investigated further to reach their full potential.

Some examples:

A sword with a +2 bonus can be identified simply by the fighter who picks it up and realizes its supernaturally superb balance and sharpness.

A cloak of resistance +1 will immediately benefit a character wearing it due to a feeling of improved mental control, reflexes, and body health.

Some worn items will require more investigation, but that could be done by checking for command words etched into the item (like a ring for example) or the need to activate an ability mechanically (a flaming sword needs to have its pommel twisted to activate the flaming ability).

Also it is possible that an item can be identified as soon as a character knows its immediate benefit. By describing the effect to a spellcaster, the spellcaster could do a Knowledge (arcana) roll or a Bardic Knowledge roll (DC = 20 + 1/2 caster level of item) to identify the item further. The information given would be very specific to the item and would only give information involving the most generic version of the item.

For example: this a Knowledge could show that an item grants a bonus to fortitude saves of +3; however, the generic version of the item has 3 charges/day and can grant a +3 if one charge is expended, +6 if two charges are expended, or +9 if three charges are expended in one instance. If the item was only worn and identified that way, the character would know that it could grant a +3 to fortitude saves but would not know it had only three charges or that the charges could be used separately or combined.

As always identify spells always work wonders.

Also major magic items, artifacts, and unique items will unlikely be investigated this way. They may have too many abilities to nail down without magical assistance.

It should also be noted that some cursed items (although incredibly rare) will lie to the user about its abilities until they are needed.

In no cases does a handheld investigation give you an idea of how many charges an item has.